PDA

View Full Version : Do I have to give noticed for fixed term contract?



jj72orguk
28-03-2008, 00:31 AM
Hi,
I managed to find a new flat a couple of weeks before the end of my fixed term contract for an assured shorthold tenancy for a flatshare came to an end. I told my landlord I was moving out at the end of the fixed term and he said he'd spoken to his solicitor and he's said that according to the contract I've signed, I still need to give him a full calendar month as notice.

Here are all the terms in the contact that relate to fixed term. Please can anyone tell me if I'm right that I don't have to give any notice or if I do have to give a months notice. My fixed term ends on sunday. Thanks...



The term 6 months, beginning on 01/10/07 (‘the fixed period’)
The tenancy will then continue, still subject to the terms and conditions set out in this agreement, from month to month from the end of this fixed period unless or until the tenant gives notice that he wishes to end the agreement as set out in clause 4 overleaf, or the landlord serves on the tenant a notice under section 21 of the housing act 1988, or a new form of agreement is entered into, or this agreement is ended by consent or a court order.

4 Ending The Agreement
4.1. The Tenant cannot normally end this agreement before the end of the term. However, after the first three months of the term, if the tenant can find a suitable alternative tenant, and provided this alternative tenant is acceptable to the landlord (the landlord’s approval not to be unreasonably held) the tenant may give notice to end the tenancy on a date at least one month from the date that such approval is given by the landlord. On the expiry of such notice, provided that the tenant pays to the landlord the reasonable expenses reasonably incurred by the landlord in granting the necessary approval and in granting any new tenancy to the alternative tenant, the tenancy shall end.

4.2. If the tenant stays on after the end of the fixed term, his tenancy will continue but will run from month to month (a ‘periodic tenancy’). This periodic tenancy can be ended by the tenant giving at least one month’s written notice to the landlord, the notice to expire at the end of a rental period.

4.3. If at any time
4.3.1 any part of the rent is outstanding for 21 days after becoming due (whether formally demanded or not) and/or
4.3.2 there is any breach, non-observance or non-performance by the tenant of any covenant or other term of this agreement which has been notified in writing to the tenant and the tenant has failed within a reasonable period of time to remedy the breach and/or pay reasonable compensation to the landlord for the breach and/or
4.3.3 any of the grounds set out as grounds 2,8 or grounds 10-15 (inclusive) (which relate to breach of any obligation by a tenant) contained in the Housing Act 1988 schedule 2 apply.

The landlord may recover possession of the property and this agreement shall come to an end. The landlord retains all his other rights in respect of the tenant’s obligations under this agreement. Note that if anyone is living at the property or if the tenancy is an assured or assured shorthold tenancy then the landlord must obtain a court order for possession before re-entering the property. This clause does not affect the tenant’s rights under the protection from eviction act 1977.

jta
28-03-2008, 03:52 AM
It seems quite clear that you can move out on the last day of your agreement without giving further notice, if you are still there the day after then a periodic tenancy kicks in and you are then bound to give at least a months notice.
If my understanding of this is wrong there are plenty of people on here who will correct me.

justaboutsane
28-03-2008, 08:00 AM
Walk out on the last day of your AST and you owe nothing. Your fixed term is over. The LL gave you a contract and you are following it! He cannot have his cake and eat it.

jj72orguk
04-04-2008, 11:25 AM
Thanks for all the advice. I gave back the keys to the landlord on the 31st March. He's refusing to give me my deposit back to cover the rent he says I owe him. I asked him wasn't it in a scheme and he said he doesnt put deposits into a scheme, he said he'll only get a slap on the wrist for not doing it.

Could anyone give me any advice on what to do next, do I need get a court order? if so, how do i go about getting one?

Thanks,
Dave

Planner
04-04-2008, 11:55 AM
Thanks for all the advice. I gave back the keys to the landlord on the 31st March. He's refusing to give me my deposit back to cover the rent he says I owe him. I asked him wasn't it in a scheme and he said he doesnt put deposits into a scheme, he said he'll only get a slap on the wrist for not doing it.

Could anyone give me any advice on what to do next, do I need get a court order? if so, how do i go about getting one?

Thanks,
Dave


Your landlord shouldnt have your deposit, it should be in one of the registered TDS schemes from the dates you have posted, I smell yet another claim coming on! Have a look here http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=9061 . You are entitled to the deposit back in full and the slap on the wrist he will get will be a further x3 of the deposit as "compensation" to you.

kayak
04-04-2008, 12:18 PM
I guess it depends on how rich you are for it to count as a slap on the wrist.

Someone I knew had to take the LL to court to retrieve the deposit, but the landlord has now offered to repay the deposit back after a judgement got filed!

Kind regards,

John

johnboy
04-04-2008, 17:09 PM
Not only can you just walk away on the last day of the tenancy agreement without notice the fact that the L/L acepted the keys means legally he agrees to ending the tenancy by taking them. (ARLA advanced legal course 2007)

He is digging a bloody big hole for himself. (and thats without even going into the deposit scheme part of it)

Beeber
04-04-2008, 18:09 PM
http://england.shelter.org.uk/advice/advice-3145.cfm#wipLive-34410-4

"What happens when my agreement runs out?
If your agreement is for a fixed term (eg six months), you can leave on the last day of the fixed term without giving notice. But you must ensure that you do not stay even one day over, or you will automatically become a periodic tenant and will have to give proper notice or come to an agreement with your landlord.

If you intend to leave on the last day you are not legally required to give the landlord any notice, but it's usually a good idea to do so, to avoid any dispute about when you actually left."

Bel
04-04-2008, 18:20 PM
jj72orguk


My suggestion is if you want to get your deposit back without the hassle of making a court claim is to write a letter of your intention to take him to court and claim 3X deposit, and then show him the relevant legal stuff so he can see that it really will be worth his while to cooperate.

jj72orguk
28-04-2008, 11:19 AM
thanks for all your help. I was thinking of setting up a claim using moneyclaim but I'm not sure if he's given me the right address. He's given me his family home address, even though he lives round the corner from where I did. He said that's his family home address and he'll receive anything I send but I checked the electoral roll and members of his family are listed up until 2007, he's still listed as being on it in 2008 but there's also names of a couple of people that have different surnames. I'm just not sure if it was his family home address but they dont live there anymore. Does anyone know what happens if I set up a claim and it goes to the wrong address? The address he gave me is the one on my contract.

I know he'll receive it if I send it to my old address as he gets all the bills addressed to him sent there anyway. but would it be ok to send it to that address if its not his home address?

Thanks,
Dave

House
28-04-2008, 18:56 PM
Maybe I'm just being difficult or maybe I'm just being plain dumb but I always believed no notice had to be given if a tenant was going to leave on the last day of the contractual fixed term because that's when the contract between the two parties ended and from then on the tenant would be protected by statute.

In this case does the contract actually come to an end at the end of the fixed period?

I ask this as it appears to be specifically written into the terms of the contract that the tenancy will continue after the fixed period as a periodic tenancy (a contractual periodic tenancy?). It does not mention that this subsequent periodic tenancy will be a statutory one (the fixed term having ended).

I'm happy to be wrong as always but am just interested to know how i'm wrong.


Hi,

The term 6 months, beginning on 01/10/07 (‘the fixed period’)
The tenancy will then continue, still subject to the terms and conditions set out in this agreement, from month to month from the end of this fixed period unless or until the tenant gives notice that he wishes to end the agreement as set out in clause 4 overleaf, or the landlord serves on the tenant a notice under section 21 of the housing act 1988, or a new form of agreement is entered into, or this agreement is ended by consent or a court order.

4 Ending The Agreement
4.1. The Tenant cannot normally end this agreement before the end of the term. However, after the first three months of the term, if the tenant can find a suitable alternative tenant, and provided this alternative tenant is acceptable to the landlord (the landlord’s approval not to be unreasonably held) the tenant may give notice to end the tenancy on a date at least one month from the date that such approval is given by the landlord. On the expiry of such notice, provided that the tenant pays to the landlord the reasonable expenses reasonably incurred by the landlord in granting the necessary approval and in granting any new tenancy to the alternative tenant, the tenancy shall end.

4.2. If the tenant stays on after the end of the fixed term, his tenancy will continue but will run from month to month (a ‘periodic tenancy’). This periodic tenancy can be ended by the tenant giving at least one month’s written notice to the landlord, the notice to expire at the end of a rental period.

4.3. If at any time
4.3.1 any part of the rent is outstanding for 21 days after becoming due (whether formally demanded or not) and/or
4.3.2 there is any breach, non-observance or non-performance by the tenant of any covenant or other term of this agreement which has been notified in writing to the tenant and the tenant has failed within a reasonable period of time to remedy the breach and/or pay reasonable compensation to the landlord for the breach and/or
4.3.3 any of the grounds set out as grounds 2,8 or grounds 10-15 (inclusive) (which relate to breach of any obligation by a tenant) contained in the Housing Act 1988 schedule 2 apply.

The landlord may recover possession of the property and this agreement shall come to an end. The landlord retains all his other rights in respect of the tenant’s obligations under this agreement. Note that if anyone is living at the property or if the tenancy is an assured or assured shorthold tenancy then the landlord must obtain a court order for possession before re-entering the property. This clause does not affect the tenant’s rights under the protection from eviction act 1977.

agent46
28-04-2008, 19:50 PM
Maybe I'm just being difficult or maybe I'm just being plain dumb but I always believed no notice had to be given if a tenant was going to leave on the last day of the contractual fixed term because that's when the contract between the two parties ended and from then on the tenant would be protected by statute.

In this case does the contract actually come to an end at the end of the fixed period?

I ask this as it appears to be specifically written into the terms of the contract that the tenancy will continue after the fixed period as a periodic tenancy (a contractual periodic tenancy?). It does not mention that this subsequent periodic tenancy will be a statutory one (the fixed term having ended).

I'm happy to be wrong as always but am just interested to know how i'm wrong.

I've only had a very, very quick glance at this, so I'm happy to be put straight....

The periodic tenancy would begin on the day after the ending of the fixed term. If the tenant moves out by midnight on that last day, then no periodic tenancy will arise, either by HA 1988 s.5(3) or under the contract (which in any event more or less just restates the tenant's statutory rights) because they would not be in possession on that first day of the period.

House
28-04-2008, 20:22 PM
Cool cool i was just pondering.

mind the gap
30-09-2010, 22:59 PM
It depends on the tenancy agreement, if the agreement requires a notice then a notice must be given regardless.
Please go away! You are rapidly turning into something of a joke.

Anyone daft enough to respond to your spammy ad must want their bumps feeling.

Roy_Solomon
01-10-2010, 00:10 AM
Who are you?

Possibly someone that has taken advice from your website :D

"Section 21 has two sections and they are section 21 fixed and section 21 fixed notices to quit."

"please note where a deposit is taken this is required by law to register the deposit with one of the governments tenancy deposit schemes, failure to do this will result in you the landlord compensating the tenant seven times the amount of the deposit taken."

"Using the right delivery of the notice. We strongly recommend you use special delivery or at least registered delivery. Don’t use first class or recorded delivery."

mind the gap
01-10-2010, 06:47 AM
Who are you?

I'm someone who finds your half-baked, unprofessional advice and your spammy links, very irritating.

I am not legally qualified, but even I know that your advice is wrong. Please stop dispensing it.

If you want to help out on a forum it's usual to spend some time reading it (and the rules/forum usage) before you 'leap in with both feet':

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_faq#faq_vb3_board_usage

And then you have to get your facts right!

theartfullodger
01-10-2010, 06:48 AM
Think you might want to quote this bit of case law to your daft Landlord...

Barakat v Ealing LBC, High Court, 1996, Return of keys and landlord’s acceptance with intention of taking possession a surrender

Cheers! Hope it works out

Artful